Michael Griffin 0:00
It’s okay to humble yourself and to seek help and that’s the one thing that we strive on is doing everything we can in our power to be successful as possible. So I advise every business owner do the legwork figure it out. There’s a way, there’s a reason why people are successful. And it’s okay to ask questions.

Angela Giovine 0:21
This episode is brought to you by WP Engine.

Angela Giovine 0:29
Pop cultures become obsessed with entrepreneurship stories from Silicon Valley, and big startup. But the backbone of our economy is made up of small local businesses. Every day, millions of small business owners deliver quality products and services, support the local economy, employ their neighbors and follow their passion. We think their stories are worth telling. I’m Angela Giovine. Welcome to the extra ordinary small business podcast. Everyone loves cupcakes..That’s the thought that former NFL stars Michael Griffin and Brian Orakpo had, one day as they enjoyed some tasty treats. Griffin and Orakpo both spent part of their professional football careers playing for the Tennessee Titans, which is where the original Gigi’s cupcakes was located. So when the time came to move on from professional football, the pair was ready to enter the entrepreneurial world. They joined forces with their college friend Bryan Hynson and together the trio became the cupcake guys. Of the nearly 31 million small businesses in the United States franchisees account for 2 to 3% of that total. In a franchise business, the entrepreneur forms his or her own small business then enters into a legal arrangement to operate and independently owned business that utilizes trademarks, trade secrets, products, branding of the franchisor. One benefit of becoming a franchisee is that you are trained and coached on a proven business model. Another benefit is that your small business immediately has a support structure from advice to supply chain, depending on the type of business. So when Brian, Bryan and Michael decided to become the cupcake guys, they entered franchisee training, and this time training wasn’t at the NFL combine. We caught up with the cupcake guys to hear about what they’ve learned in this small business and how it equips them to branch out into other areas of entrepreneurship.

Angela Giovine 2:47
Michael, Brian and Bryan, the three of you went to college together, right?

Brian Orakpo 2:52
Correct. Yes, we did.

Angela Giovine 2:54
So was entrepreneurship something that came up in the college days? Did you envision that in the long term as a student?

Michael Griffin 3:02
No, I actually wish I did. It was something that later on in our career me and Brian Orakpo, that is a big Brian little Bryan something

Angela Giovine 3:11
Okay.

Michael Griffin 3:11
we were all out eating and the best person to tell the story again is Brian Orakpo, he tells it the best. So Brian, I suggest that you start this, this conversation off.

Brian Orakpo 3:22
We were 18, you know, obviously me and Michael play football for the University of Texas and Bryan and we met as we began our careers and we all became very good friends and as our careers went, you know, obviously football, we had tremendous careers for a long, long period of time. Second half of our career, you kind of start wondering, what are you going to do next? You know what, we can’t play football, we can’t play sports forever. I mean, as father time is undefeated, you know, so we have to start thinking outside of the box and, you know, kind of making that next step for our post career. Well, we always get together during the offseason and just have a good time you know, have some drinks, eat some sweet, sweets is our kind of our go to meal when the nights over with and I said hey guys you know we’re gett-we know you know we need to start thinking about, you know what are we going to do after football because I can’t say that the guy in 35 40 years old can’t get interceptions at 40 years old anymore, we got to start thinking outside the box so so I just started rambling off ideas and I came up with Why don’t we open up a cupcake shop? Because me and Griff d both played in Nashville. Nashville is known for Gigi’s Cupcakes that’s where originated at and we have a very, I should say clientele over there they they are huge Tennessee Titans fans. And I figured what let’s start small since it’s people we know, we can go to corporate and kind of discuss their ideas and they’ll kind of help us along the way since we kind of have no clue what we’re doing. And it’s a low risk high reward type of situation. So, the guys loved it. Bryan came on board, mean Bryan is a great ambassador for us, because he’s a he’s a great businessman because he does. He’s not in the sports world but he kind of teaches us things that we necessarily don’t know, that he kind of had a head start in life with. So it’s a great three head monster we got, he was able to talk corporate.Get in the door, kind of get our feet wet and open up a location, our first location, and we have been running very, very smoothly ever since. Obviously, a few hiccups, but like any business, but we’re extremely, extremely excited and glad that he’s able to just take that leap of faith and have a successful cupcake business.

Angela Giovine 5:34
Right. So obviously, Brian Orakpo, Michael Griffin, you spent many years in the NFL, Bryan Hynson, you were in the world of small business already. Is that correct?

Bryan Hynson 5:47
That is correct. That’s correct. So yeah, I I kind of started working when I was probably about 19 20, kind of in sales and kind of work through college, and then once I graduated, I stayed into that, and I’m currently still working kind of in the corporate America right now.

Angela Giovine 6:01
I love hearing that. You know, I think one thing that gets overlooked a lot of times when you make that move, I did the same thing. I went from big business to small businesses that you know, there is a transition period and you have to plan for your future, so that’s awesome. So what roles do you each take within the business?

Bryan Hynson 6:18
So I guess if you do want to talk about roles, so big Brian’s kind of our decorator, he’s kind of hands on, he he loves esthetics. I’d say he’s a neat freak too, so he kind of is the organizer of the store and head decorator, Mike’s kind of do it all. He’s our inventory guy, he also does all the baking. I I try to stay in kind of the business part of, so I’ll do the payroll, do kind of all the HR, hire, document, and also kind of I run the social media. So I’m making sure we’re putting out some good content each and every day just to stay relevant.

Angela Giovine 6:51
Yeah, and I want to get back to that in a minute that you guys are doing awesome with your social media, but let’s talk about Gigi’s for a minute. I was watching wondering why you chose Gigi’s and you mentioned that you were in Nashville and that was where they were born. So they had a huge cult following and as they grew, you decided to take that on and become a franchisee. I think a lot of people don’t realize the relationship between you know, franchisees are small business owners what was the thought process there behind choosing to be a franchisee instead of just going out and making a cupcake company? Was it the branding? Was it the support? Was it all of it and tell us about how they’ve supported you?

Michael Griffin 7:33
I would say just the it already had a foundation. A lot of times you get out there as a business owner, you kind of don’t know, in they already had a foundation, was very familiar with the product. Going with cupcakes who doesn’t love cupcakes and it was one thing we thought that each and every year you know you celebrate a birthday. And this a lot of you know, get well soon, wherever may be there was always a way of giving a gift wherever there’s a sweet. They helped us to lodge in beginning, just a foundation. We chose our location, they agreed upon it, and they helped us up to the whole while learning the process, learning from all the way from the bottom ground up. We built our location from the ground up, it was literally a piece of land and we started did the whole build out. We was very hands on. Me and little Bryan, we actually unloaded the truck by ourselves, putting all our equipment in there probably the worst thing we ever did in our entire life. Again, it was a learning process. Then we set our store up and everything else. Again, a lot of things you realize, especially in a lot of people who jump into the business they don’t know. And this is one thing once like big Brian said it was a small, small risk, high reward. And so we just want to learn the business. We want to learn the ins and outs. Be the LLC where we cannot hire family members or anything and we were all hands on deck so somebody calls in sick, we’re there. One of us probably there every day to make sure everything is running accordingly and we just do the things that we got to do. Mother’s Day, Halloween, Valentine’s Day, whatever might be. I mean, we’re always all hands on deck. So we’re just learning business so, we decided to go elsewhere learning thing else we knew what you need and what you don’t know, especially with the build out and things that nature. So it was just learning, learning the whole process, and you can go to business school and everything else but hands on experience was the most important thing when it came to to opening this business, but just learning business all together.

Angela Giovine 9:31
And you launched I think I read in 2017, right?

Michael Griffin 9:35
Correct. We started in 2017. We actually opened in 2018.

Angela Giovine 9:39
So what is something that has gone the way you thought it would? And what is something that’s been like really unexpected as being a business owner?

Michael Griffin 9:50
I think in my personal opinion, eeh, nothing has gone the way that I thought it was going to go. It’s a lot more work. I think playing football was a lot easier to be honest with you. I think because you’re able to control the narrative, you know, you can control yourself and you can operate but with a business you know, you’re dealing with a lot of people, a lot of different people, different mindsets, different cultural backgrounds, men, women, you’re dealing with a lot of different things, that you’re trying to just stay thing. Football is like, Hey, we all got to go. We’re going to do everything we can, at all cost to win this game. A different personality in the business world is a little bit different.

Bryan Hynson 10:31
Mean, these guys are warriors in in the on the football field. So being able to translate, add and beat kind these killer kid nice guys inside of a cupcake shop. I think thats

Angela Giovine 10:45
And that actually leads me into the next question, which is you have been able to get some fairly great press in a short amount of time. Of course, I mean, you are able to tell that story, the NFL story, lean on some of your contacts from there but there’s also just this great story with football players making cupcakes. Was that part of the allure of opening the cupcake store? Was it was telling that story something that you envisioned would help you get PR or was that just a happy accident?

Brian Orakpo 11:20
It was just an accident honestly, to tell you the truth and to be completely quite frank with you, that was in the back of our minds. It wasn’t a publicity stunt, It wasn’t a PR thing. We’ve literally wanted to get into an entrepreneurship and we picked this cupcakes business because we felt like it was you know, something that it was a low risk, but a high reward and once the media, and once our team, and once everybody found out it literally took a life of its own but it wasn’t never in discussion where Man this can blow up, this will be huge with the commercials this and that. We just wanted to be successful. So we can do other things outside of the cupcake shop. And you know, here we are today where we have many other businesses that we’re getting ready to do. All because of the foundation of being hands on with Gigi’s cupcakes, that’s a originally in Nashville, so I pay a lot of my respect and tribute to to start up with Gigi’s because it like I said, it helped myself and the other guys with a lot of other venture. So it’s been great.

Angela Giovine 12:26
Your business degree, so to speak, or your MBA?

Brian Orakpo 12:29
Yeah, I mean, like Griff Griff Griff, hit the nail on the head, you know, you, you can have all the fancy paperwork and all the degrees and everything, but it really takes more of the experience, the hands on experience to really learn, you know, I hadn’t, I knew nothing about, you know, being an entrepreneur. I had the drive and the motivation to do it, but I knew nothing about it. But so the hands on experience was beneficial for myself personally.

Angela Giovine 12:54
Yeah, and like you said, you’re now able to take some of those general principles and replicate them into other endeavors, absolutely.

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Angela Giovine 15:37
You’re also killing it in the social media game. Has that played a big part of your success being big on Instagram, on social media? And what advice would you give other small business owners who are looking to do that part of their business better?

Michael Griffin 15:53
I would say I mean, the social media aspect of it, we’re were really just being ourselves. I mean, that’s just us. You was a flower on the wall, I mean, just being around us, I think even with the the Microsoft commercial, I mean, there was no script. That was just us being ourselves. And, that’s the thing. I mean, we have fun doing it. I mean, it that’s that was the main thing is just having fun. And we again, we’re football players, we understand that the putting all your effort into something and that’s the one thing that we want to be very successful. That’s something that’s instilled in us is that, we want to be succes:sful people. And specially on and off the field. You know, no matter what you do, you know, we got kids, we got loved ones and things and we want to continue to pave the way and, and show them ways of you could be successful more than one way, whether it’s playing football, whether it’s being a doctor, lawyer, business owner, wherever it may be, we’re still building our legacy as as men. But again, the social media aspect, I mean, that’s just us being ourselves. Bryan Hynson, he comes up with a lot of good ideas and stuff while we’re in there joking around or something. I mean, we did something: with baking with Griff just messing around or dishes with Griff or Brian Orakpo pull his phone out and just, you know, when we saw something we was about to open up. Literally just it just worked. He was filming something, and I was driving off on the van and a song came on and we were just being ourselves and people are like, Hey, I just love these guys, because they see that they’re having so much fun. And it is something just brings a lot of attention, I think. Just just just bridging that gap of masculinity and wearing aprons and everything else and just saying Listen, be yourself, you know, let’s stop that bridge, Oh men should do this, women shouldn’t do this, whatever it may be. So I think that’s opened up a lot. I do this to see us being ourselves and in trying to be as successful as possible. I think this is motivating a lot of people and I think what other small business owners is just If you put your mind into it, I mean, do it, go for it. The sky’s the limit for your business. You’re going to hit some bumps here and there, but again, if you want to reach out I mean we’ve I went to Dallas to go speak to other business owners of Gigi’s and see how they do things. Sit outside of their shop for hour or two just watch what’s going on, how they do things. And he tried to incorporate reach out to other stores and ask what’s their best practices and things that nature. It’s okay to humble yourself and to seek help. And that’s the one thing that we strive on is doing everything we can in our power to be successful as possible. So I advise every business owner, do the legwork. Figure it out, try to figure there’s a way there’s a reason why people are successful. And it’s okay to ask questions.

Angela Giovine 18:41
Yeah, I think a lot of people are scared to just really be vulnerable and authentic on camera just in front of a of an iPhone or whatever for social media and that really does come through, like your personalities on social media. Just show like you said, who you are people just want to connect. You mentioned earlier that being a small business owner has been quite a different challenge than being a professional athlete, but what are some of the lessons you learned as an athlete that have been helpful in your success as a small business owner?

Brian Orakpo 19:14
I think the number one thing is the work ethic. Myself, Griffin and you know, this is this is the funny part we get on Bryan to well sometimes little Bryan because me and Griff, we can go all day. And we joke about it. Well, you know, because we’re so used to it. Being on the field where we eat breakfast at six o’clock in the morning, we don’t eat again until after practice in four fi- you know, four five o’clock so we’re just used to just going, and non stop and then get in the business world we keep that same mentality where we don’t need breaks, we don’t need lots of this and that and you see other people and they’re looking like Wow, these guys are just like a machine, you know, but that’s comes natural for us. So the work ethic is something that we’ve instilled in the business world that obviously that came from our background in football. Bryan, Bryan, he does a tremendous job with the things we don’t know when it comes to the, you know, the business side of things which that’s where he has his advantages and kind of helps us along the way.

Michael Griffin 20:21
It’s just that work ethic, that drive, that that passion to be successful, you’d never want to fail. No matter what, what the situation is. It’s like we thrive under pressure. And no, sometimes we’ve been in the bakery and you know, right before Mother’s Day, you can see a lot of our employees they’re like, stressed out, and we’re just like looking at each other like this is nothing This is nothing compared to you know, being defensive players, it’s four to one and we got to make it stop. No, this is not this is not that type of pressure. So

Angela Giovine 20:50
Yeah, your boiling point is a lot higher.

Michael Griffin 20:52
Yeah. So that stress level, but then at the same time, you know, maintaining there’s no we’re husbands at the same time, we got kids, and and being able to turn it on and turn it off. And I think that’s what helped us out, I mean, you go to a stressful football game and uh may have lost and you get home, and you got to turn that off and become a father of your kids. And you know, no matter what you’re always winners in their hearts. So, football just in in and it was structure. And that’s the biggest thing was to structure. Being able to be structured be on top of things, you know, ready for any type of sudden change that may happen hypothetically speaking, if we order something and it doesn’t come in on the on the shipment, I mean, you got to make got it you got to adapt. So we got to run to the store, go all of our creation to find something or whatever it may be or see what the other alternative is. Things that nature so, we’re very structure oriented that that allows us to be very successful and that’s the one thing I think that that taught us that from a very young age, playing college football, 6 am workouts and and going to school and trying to stay eligible and at the same time playing the University of Texas and going on to the National Football League and being in a structured environment your entire time. I think that’s what allowed us to continue to be structured now with Gigi’s Cupcakes.

Angela Giovine 22:08
Now, how many employees do you have in the store?

Michael Griffin 22:11
Right now we have five.

Angela Giovine 22:14
Five, and are you able to instill some of this culture that you have from in you, from being structured and disciplined athletes? Do you feel like you’re able to pass that into your employees and to the culture of your store?

Michael Griffin 22:28
We try, we try.

Brian Orakpo 22:30
We try to show them by example. You know, I think we try to lead by example without just telling just work and let them see how we operate without always dictating and telling them you know, certain things that they can do better because you know, that can be traumatizing at times when you have these these athletes in here, these professional athletes at a high level that are just coming in here. You know, always you know, riding us for whatever reasons.

Bryan Hynson 22:54
I think when you think about what makes kind of an an elite athlete, which both of these guys have been. They’re both they’re both pro bowlers in their own right. But they have a, they have great work ethic, they’re competitive, and they also hold hold themselves accountable. And I think they’ve they’ve been able to do a great job of transitioning that into our store. I mean, we’re looking at making sure if somebody is one minute late, they’re late, they’re going to get written up. If their competitiveness, we’re sending out reports, we’re looking at year over year numbers each and every day, and month, and just again, that accountability, if we have a one off situation, we’re going to sit down, I’m going to talk to you, we’re going to walk through them and kind of figure out what we can do better the next time.

Angela Giovine 23:36
That’s fantastic. I think one thing that a lot of small business owners struggle with is that they’re passionate about their product or service, but they aren’t looking at those reports daily and monthly and keeping themselves accountable on a dollars and cents level or whatever metric you’re using.

Brian Orakpo 23:52
Yeah, you have to, you have to, that’s the only way to survive. You know, everybody can have a dream in a big lavish store with nice amenities and things of that nature, but it will fail every time if you don’t have any structure, if you don’t have employees that are willing to, to buy in. You know, the program. So we even even today after this podcast, we have our weekly meeting with our team manager, and we’re going to go over the week, we’re going to go over the game plan, we’re going to talk about the new employees that are the possibility to get hired this summer. And this is always always a game plan and you got to make sure you stay consistent.

Angela Giovine 24:27
That’s really good advice. What has surprised you the most, about small business ownership?

Michael Griffin 24:34
The small business ownership what surprised me the most is um, it’s all new. Is I think me and and Brian Orakpo, I think we can both say this, probably not so much for Bryan Hynson, but it is new. It’s the unfamiliar air league with me, because, you know, it’s just you don’t realize planning the National Football League. I mean, pretty much everything is kind of handed to you. You know, you get to work, there’s breakfast there, you got lunch and you know, you’re hurt, get injured, whatever it is. You know, everything’s handed to you, but you’re also brainwashed and programmed to be a machine that doesn’t deal with emotions. And, um, I think what just surprises as a business owner is just, you know, communication, the communication aspect of it is a lot different. Dealing with people is a lot different. I feel like as a college football player, as a professional athlete, you’re always around people that are like you and what I mean, not necessarily saying that looks like you or whatever it may be, but it’s people that all we for the longest been doing the same thing and we’re programmed to be a certain way. You know, going through interview process, you get to know alo- interesting people. And you know, people that come from different backgrounds and different cultures and different things that you probably didn’t really realize that existed out there. So I think the most surprising thing is just, it’s just a different world. Everything’s just different to me. It just surprised me of just this day to day. You know, getting up early in the morning and being motivated every day, sometimes I come in there in the morning and I like screaming like why are you so high? Why you have so much energy? And I’m like it’s you know, it’s a blessing, it’s a blessing to be up like this is life like. This is be happy excited and you just see just different personalities. People are just like, they look at like it’s work, we look at Hey, this is the easiest thing in the world. Making cupcakes? I mean is that, who don’t love cupcake? A free cupcake. This is cool, but that’s been the biggest surprise me it’s just, it’s everything is new. It’s new. And every day I’m learning something new with the business.

Brian Orakpo 26:34
I think just add on to that which again, hit the nail on the head with it. I think Griff is saying it in the nicest way possible, but to be quite frank, to be quite frank, for every business owner, anybody that wants a business you cut, you want every employee to be like yourself, because that’s your passion, that’s you just wish everybody had was you, in there. You know what I mean? Because it’s hard, though, It’s hard that’s It’s like, that’s your baby. Angela like that’s the baby.

Angela Giovine 27:10
Amen, I do know,

Brian Orakpo 27:13
and they’re kids. You know, they’re kids, you got some young ones that their work only work maybe It’s not their passion, they’re just clocking in and clocking out, but they’re not the one that sacrifices, you know, their livelihoods for the business. So that’s the unfortunate part when it comes to that type of stuff. So, we try to make it fun, we try to make pure act, we try to make it, you know, as accommodating as possible so people enjoy coming to for it.

Bryan Hynson 27:37
And I think that’s what the growth as well of these guys kind of doing that the process of these last two and a half years. I mean, they want it they want them to be Michael Griffin’s and Brian Orakpo’s. But now they’re able to coach these persons to to get to their top potential. I mean, there’s there’s there’s certain strengths some people have and then some people they just will never get it. They just can’t have that same type of drive or anything. Of course, we’re business owners, so we’re going to want it more than everybody else either. So I think coaching them and getting to reach their full potential and getting the most out of them. I think that’s really helped out as we’ve grown over over the last two and a half years.

Michael Griffin 28:12
You go you go there around with Orak, I guess your a hundred percent right. We want everybody to care about it the way that we care about it, but they don’t.

Angela Giovine 28:20
Fill in this sentence. I would not be standing here today, if not for blank.

Bryan Hynson 28:27
I would not be standing here today if it wouldn’t for these two guys, Brian and Michael. I think we’re again, we’re a three headed monster. We’re a great team. We rag on each other. We put our egos to the side, each and every single day and we work hard together and we’re going to continue to work on different projects. So

Michael Griffin 28:46
I don’t think I could top that one. That that that, thank you, Bryan. I’m glad you finally said something nice about me

Brian Orakpo 28:58
Something different. I would not be here if it wasn’t for my arm, my and our past. You know, I think passion is very, very important when it comes to anything that you’re doing in life, whether it’s business, whether it’s, you know, going to school, whether it’s sports, you got to have passion for what you do or you will, you will, you know, failat the wayside every single time. And I think that’s very important.

Michael Griffin 29:26
I think both, you know, if you’re going to go in business, especially with with friends, they got to be family, they got to you got to be able to trust them in and out. I think a lot of people that have failed in business going with friends or whatever it is that, they got to have the same values that you have, whether it’s being a family man or is being friends, realizing that that you can always count on them. And that’s one thing that I know with, with both Brian’s that I can count on them no matter what the situation is, whether it’s with the kids, whether it’s with the business, whether it’s with family, and the passion. You gotta have that passion. And that’s the one thing when it comes to is has it more than friendship, has be your family. We all have the same care when it comes to this business. And I think that’s what makes us strive in this business and is the passion, friends and family.

Angela Giovine 30:14
What is one piece of advice you would give your 18 year old self?

Michael Griffin 30:19
Oh.., Umm, I would say don’t put all your eggs in one basket. What I mean by that is, I think if if what I know now, if I would have started at age 18, preparing for that I think I would be so much further now. As 18 year old college student, going to the University of Texas, I think it was all I want to do is play football, football, football, football and go to the National Football League. But if I would have had the business aspect of it while I was playing, I think we will I will be so much further today than I am now. So I think that’s what it will be, don’t put all your eggs in one basket but you know, develop those relationships and in with the opportunity that we had as college athletes, to talk to different owners, business owners and things of that nature to to figure out life after football because football is not everything. I retired at the age of 32 years old and now I’m 35 years old. And I’m starting another chapter in my life, but maybe I could have started two chapters simultaneously while I was playing.

Brian Orakpo 31:19
Yeah, I think he, he took he took mine. I was I was already thinking that and the Griffs hit yet again. No, I, I have we one thing about us of what I would tell my 18 year old self was, you know, those relationships again, yeah, we myself Griffs, and Bryan, we met so many people, so many great influencers when we were young, but it was all about football. We could we can care the less at the moment, you know, it was I got to make- and fortunately we did, we had great careers, you know, but a leg injury here, a head injury here, it would have been a different story. So if I, if I can go back, I definitely would have used all those influencers influencers, those people that came and talk to us and commune those old business owners, things of that nature into this, you know, built those relationship very early on.

Angela Giovine 32:10
Well, it sounds like you guys have a lot going on. In addition to Gigi’s you, I think I read that there’s a TV deal on your website?

Bryan Hynson 32:20
Yeah, there’s some possibilities going out there for a couple of different TV options with the food network, we’re working really closely with them right now. So we’ll keep our fingers crossed, I think. I think they they see the vision.

Angela Giovine 32:33
Congratulations. And I noticed that you’re also becoming serial entrepreneurs. Tell us where we can find you guys online.

Michael Griffin 32:42
Right, tell them about the East five star eSports.

Brian Orakpo 32:46
Oh, five star eSports. That’s another project that myself and Bryan are working on. It all comes from the foundation of Gigi. Gigi is what’s the the foundation and we’re now able to branch off in different things. So long story short, we’re doing five star eSports you can follow us, with the same title five star eSports arena. It’s a facility out here in Austin where your your kids or anybody that loves gaming to come out have a great time, enjoy great food, you know have tournaments, birthday parties, it’s the whole night. That’s a great passion I have which is gaming. And I’m extremely excited about that that’s going to become to everybody in the Austin area next year.

Bryan Hynson 33:26
And then you could also find our our cupcakes at thecupcakeguys.com so that’s that has a ton of branding material and it has all of our links to our social media. We’re also building a shop, so we’re going to have some crazy cupcake guys, material. We’ll have some shirts, aprons, you name it.

Angela Giovine 33:48
Awesome. Yeah and for everybody, all of our listeners, follow them on Instagram. They’re really fun to watch and definitely makes you hungry for a cupcake. Well, thank you guys, so much. I learned a lot from you and can’t wait to talk again.

Michael Griffin 34:04
All right, thank you very much and stay safe.

Angela Giovine 34:06
Stay safe.

Brian Orakpo 34:07
Absolutely, Thanks for having us.

Angela Giovine 34:09
And one more time, thank you and shout out to WP Engine check them out and get your special offer today at extra ordinary small business dot com backslash WP Engine.

Angela Giovine 34:27
Thanks for listening. For more information about our show and our company, head to extra ordinary small business dot com. And don’t forget to follow us on Facebook or Instagram. We would be so grateful, If you could help us reach more listeners. All you have to do, is go to iTunes or wherever you get your podcast and rate, review and subscribe. It would mean the world to us. Ratings, reviews, and subscribes are how iTunes decides which podcasts are worth sharing. Help us continue to bring these stories of extraordinary small business owners to the world. By rating, reviewing and subscribing, you’re helping our small business. It’s free and it takes just a minute. Thanks!